sustained re action

[tally-ho!]

ohh, i see what made me so furious.

same view of the board from this user, as from a stranger's point of view.

[Mr X]

hello,

so mr j, what is the deal with airline food victor sanchez ?

mr x.

ps.
to setup and shaheryar scenario requires the secret haver to be interesting. and not an idiot.

[Merlin]

Airline food? Victor Sanchez?

This is confusing

Tupe
http://youtu.be/ZQxuw9d2d28?list=UUudZ0PWfd_p5BUb8uBcUtYg

[Mr X]

mr merlin,

i am confused,

first you posted broken link, then the song, then the parody. the song was bad enough, paradoy is unbearable.

maybe you should try contributing to the discussion. novel idea to be sure.

mr x.

ps.
how do we make mr g and admin ?

[Merlin]

mr merlin,

i am confused,

first you posted broken link, then the song, then the parody. the song was bad enough, paradoy is unbearable.

Yes, that's right, except link wasn't broken ... so you too get that this confusing ... and actually I think the parody is the best one.

maybe you should try contributing to the discussion. novel idea to be sure.

Isn't that what I am doing?  Here?  Now? ("Discussion" such as it is ...) Or am I missing something?  What other contribution are you looking for?  A psychic one perhaps?

mr x.

ps.
how do we make mr g and admin ?

I expect that probably you have to ask Ra6 (the owner of forum4.org)

[Mr X]

it was broken for me at first, looked like an embedded video that didnt load.

do you think posting imagine dragons songs is contributing to discussion ? what is the "contribution".

Or am I missing something?  What other contribution are you looking for?  A psychic one perhaps?

no really, maybe novel ideas such as, let me think, saying what your take is on things that other people are talking about. give me one sentance on sanchez, even if it is "this is the first i have heard of him". sanchez is currently interesting, mr j thinks sanchez is viable.

instead of asking mr j, i will think up and complicated plot.

mr x.

[ju4o]

Hello. " i am okay with breaking it down page by page, despite the effort "

Very okay!  Would positively like!!  And, hoping that when it actually happens you will find it more delight than effort.

Only thing is, I need to lay hands on my copy of the book, which is not with me now until may be some weeks.

Hopefully in the meantime mey there be enough discussion to keep the subject alive and make it alright to get down to page by page details in a few weeks.  Meanwhile here are some brief remarks about various things which have cropped up so far.  First to recap, remember that I said very specifically, and clearly I hope, why I find Sanchez interesting:

Victor Sanchez is interesting because he is the only one, so far as I'm aware, who would actually take his students to meet his teachers.  Thus he is the only one who gave his students any opportunity to check up on his claims to authenticity.

Given that, the following things are not relevant to this particular part of the discussion:

(1) whether Sanchez is an annoying little squirt
(2) whether he is extremely interested in himself
(3) whether what Sanchez means by toltecs relates to what Castaneda means by them
(4) just how silent does knowledge have to be in order to be called silent knowledge
(5) whether there is any sound reason, grammatical or otherwise, for capitalizing it as Silent Knowledge

By all means let us discuss these things also.  For now, I'm only saying that they have no bearing on why I find Sanchez interesting.

[tally-ho!]

Hello!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yq3JuKY2kQ
good morning!
here i am!
relate please!

yea, i'm teddy-bear and starved for attention...

http://spiritualitydiscussiongroup.yuku.com/topic/937/WTH-a-hat-member-
...
edited once by me to chance WTF into WTH [=what the hell] - accepting suggestion of one of the XYZ misters. now, interesting: WTH changing the title will do to the thread? (but no thread...
sitting alone in the darkness
?

when Genaro shits
the mountains shake!

when tally-ho! 
talks to the 4 corners
of boardom?
wait and see!
i might even
throw away
this heavy
explosive chemedan...
(me too, i'm waitin'... patiently.)
"you can't eat cats, victor.
no, you can't eat cats!
you can't eat cats!
true toltecs
 are not
eating cats!

[Mr X]

hello mr j,

it is always some effort examining the lesser known toltecs, they are usually lesser known for an reason. but it is needed to maintain my status as and self proclaimed debunker toltexpert hobbyist. i will have and little fun, sure.

i do not have an pc scanner but have considered photographing pages so mr g, t, and m can see them. it is an obscure book from around 20 years ago, i think that would fall under fair use.

given that you find it interested that sanchez is the only one to take students, then sanchez is realevant. everything about him. we are not talking about teachers taking students to teachers in general, we are talking about victor sanchez taking toltec students to toltec masters. i think painting and viewing and wider sanchez picture provides context to his student taking acts.

sanchez being annoying and self obessed matters, that is the character taking the students. a person whos word is the truth. whos ego must not be challenged. sanchez being and casta style beliefer matters. he didnt "gave his students any opportunity to check up on his claims to authenticity"

he carefully selected and groomed people who were already true beliefers, weeded out the ones who's lives were arbitraily not true and right. until he was left with the truest of belifers, people cleaning their tonals and improving their nazguls. people so invested in the belief, and teased by false starts decided by him, that they were going to see his shamans as toltecs wether they were real toltecs or not. people so invested in sanchez being right, there was never going to be any questioning. that was not an authenticity check, that was an "i have carefully selected you to agree with me" event.

he didnt just open up to his "students" and let them visit his sources. as he is an casta style beliefer, taking his similiar casta style students to meet what he claims are toltec shamans, it is fair to say "whether what Sanchez means by toltecs relates to what Castaneda means by them" is relevant.

even for and simple thing like he is interesting because he took students to contacts, all those other little details matter. unless of course we are just talking about teachers who take students to their teachers, in general. like doctors.

so the obvious question remains, mr j - why do you find sanchez interesting soley for the reason he gave his students any opportunity to check up on his claims to authenticity ?

mr x.

ps.
hello ms z.

[Mr G]

I am shocked and appalled by how poorly Google seems to know me. The "recommended" section of youtube says I should watch "Al Roker Illuminati MK-Ultra Mind Control Breakdown on Live TV EXPOSED !!!" To add insult to injury, it wants me to watch Michio Kaku explain quantum computers. Here is my textual impression of Michio Kaku:

Imagine if you will, even though I know you definitely can't, a thing that is so immensely complex that your mind cannot even grasp the tiniest little bit of it even if you tried - really - quite hard. It is as if your tiny mind is searching for the end of the sticky tape on the roll, and all it can achieve is to go round and round and round it for hours, until you finally tire of it and - realize - that this stuff is best left to us - the professionals.

What was the other link in Merlin's post? There's only a poor parody left, which I am going to philosophically assume is his point: What passes for culture nowadays is a weak parody of something that wasn't that good to begin with. Commiserations, I feel your pain.

I am sorry, but I am unable to think of Victor Sanchez without thinking of Dirty Sanchez. It is really quite disturbing, I don't know what Freud would have made of this. I suspect it's just because that scene with Mooj in The 40 Year Old Virgin was so funny. I definitely won't post a link to that on youtupe, especially with ladies around. That said, Tally-ho, tally-ho. Mr X, "Ms Z" has a nice ring to it, but what do you think of "Ms T"? Just a suggestion. Ms Z, devourer of pussycats. There's Freud again, spinning in his grave.

Mr J, it's not clear to me whether you think Sanchez is merely interesting, or a candidate for "genuine article". As in, a true teacher of ancient mysteries. What is it that his students report about his teachers, and how reliable do you think those reports are?

PS I would post a tupe, but Youtube now suggests I watch "Aliens Saved Earth From Nuclear Meltdown?" Why Google, why?

[Mr X]

mr g,

i like the michio impression. it sounds accurate.

if we used ms t, would people think misty is related to mr t ?

other link was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9FLwTTQ3RQ , i listened to it once and then the music video and had it stuck in my head for 24 hours so be warned.

i like to make fun of merlins tupes because he doesnt like maiden, mostly. i was questioning his contribution as i want him to contribute more, not any problem with tupes. you and i are og tupers from the cocomojoe era. i dont think merlin gets tuping fully. they are for adding to an post, or being and punchline, accent or full stop. or most importantly, as you once said, making oneself cool by association. it takes and skilled tuper to make the post an tupe itself with minimum text. the lady seems tough enough to handle comedy tupes.

mr x.

ps.
the obvious answer to you google problems is that the men in black have been using your wifi.

[ju4o]

Hello guys and girls.

(According to the member list, there is more than one girl here.)

"Why do you find sanchez interesting solely for the reason he gave his students any opportunity to check up on his claims to authenticity ?"

Basically I'm interested in the question of to what extent traditional spiritual lineages survive in central america.

I find Sanchez interesting to the extent that his activities contribute part of an answer to that question.

So the main question of interest, in this regard, is whether he actually met the people he says he met.

The fact that he took his students to meet them too makes it that much harder for him to have invented the story.

Well of course there is a theoretical possibility that the people who he took his students to meet were actors hired to dress up and pretend to be anciently wise.

I really don't think that is likely enough to be worth worrying about.

Criticisms of Sanchez's character are interesting in their own right but are not relevant to the question of whether he actually managed to meet those people.

[Mr X]

ok mr j,

i will have to read more of what his shaman friends say, but i dont think he would of made up the people he met. while he may be deluded enough to think they are toltecs, he doesnt seem the type to outright lie about meating some shamans. he is very pro mexico and into indegenious people of mexico.

his next book was about recapitulation to save your soul. not really indigenous ideas. still very casta based and new agey, not ancient traditiony.

the only thing that would make me find spiritual lineages in central america interesting is if they had actual ancient knowledge of value, real the mysteries sort of stuff. creation myths and the reason why the funny hat must be worn is interersting and all as and historical and cultural thing, but lots of people have those stories.

there must be many spiritual traditional lineages all around the world, but just because they are old and indigenous and traditonal doesnt automatically give them value. what if you find an hidden secret group of indians, and they belief in ......thetans and xenu.

it seems beliefable dirty sanchez met some shamans from the wirririka, wether or not they have any outstanding value outside of sanchezs projected "toltecs" is another question.

and yes, at no point would my mind go to "sanchez hired people to wear funny hats".

mr x.

[ju4o]

"i will have to read more of what his shaman friends say"

Hmm... as far as I can remember the book doesn't actually include much if any of that.

Maybe it does and I just forgot, it's years since I read it.  But I think it's more of a nice vibey account of hanging out with shaman friends than anything about their actual teachings.

Also, the intriguing subject of character flaws must be taken into account.  I note that Sanchez seems to annoy you quite a lot ... at least, more than he annoys me.  And there is no pleasure in reading a book by someone who annoys one.

So this might be a good moment for me to mention my other suggestion, which is Martin Prechtel, 'Secrets of The Talking Jaguar: Memoirs from the Living Heart of a Mayan Village'

The thing is, we are all scoundrels, but Prechtel is a completely different kind of scoundrel from what Sanchez is, and I think of a kind that you would find a whole lot more agreeable.

By the way, Prechtel has written a few books.  If you do read one, I would suggest this first one.  The others are more folklory and somewhat tedious (imo).  The one I mentioned is rip-roaring and hilarious.

I haven't mentioned it yet because it has no connection with Castaneda.  But it is central American, near enough to include in the conversation.

Also, there are varying opinions about Prechtel.  So that you know, here is one:

Dr. Nathaniel Tarn (author of Scandals in the House of Birds: Shamans and Priests on Lake Atitlßn) and Dr. Robert Carlsen (author of The War for the Heart and Soul of a Highland Maya Town) wish to disassociate themselves completely from the latest activities of Mr. Martin Prechtel. When they worked with him in the 1970s, Mr. Prechtel was an honest and knowledgeable collaborator and Tarn and Carlsen gave him joint-author status on a variety of projects as a result. Mr. Prechtel, now calling himself a "Maya Shaman," has in the 1990s, with Putnam as his publisher, written (or had written for him) a self-puffing volume without any scholarly basis whatsoever, but full of anthropology-bashing. His claim, in essence, is that all costumbre is now dead in Atitlßn, but it lives inside him. Therefore he is the only Atitlßn that is left. We regret that, without warning, he has broken all agreements made with us and reiterated over the years to work within a scholarly context. Further, we regret this blatant commercialization of Native American rituals and beliefs at the hands of someone who once respected them.

I highly recommend this book.

[tally-ho!]

oops - i mixes Sanchez with Miguel Ruise...
so, correct - first time i hear about him. or rather, i saw once a SR thread about casta suing him for copyright, which seemed really weird, since i thought it was about Migel Ruise's 4 agreements catechism - seemingly enlighted, but really rigid as a rusted door knob. or like this other catechism:
http://www.nibiruancouncil.com/html/keysoverview.html (http://www.nibiruancouncil.com/html/keysoverview.html)

at no point would my mind go to "sanchez hired people to wear funny hats

".
some Indians are quite hospitable. no need to hire them, they would give you the show which is their life for free, or at least if you bring some groceries. and sanchez brings a bunch of rich tourists to the village!

   as for  those funny hats - they wear them in daily life.
from the sanchez  site:

This enchanting village is small, quiet, has little cars activity; nice accommodations and charming restaurants and cafes; it is the perfect place to connect with your own soul and with what is eternal.

and touristic.
 
 

Quetzalcoatl, The Feathered Serpent, represents the realization of this integration and the necessary pathway for all individuals and for the whole human kind. Thus the condition of Toltec represents a universal possibility for all people; indigenous and non-indigenous..

from the coming vision-quest prospect T

...three days.. solo ritual of meeting the Great Spirit in the exquisite beauty of a sacred land ... the vision seekers will be camping alone surrounded only by nature and the Great Spirit ...
The “in the nature” activities will be held in a ranch nearby. While accommodations in the village are charming, nice and comfortable, the “ranch” is –for the most part- just a magical piece of land amongst the forces of nature, in the way to the top of the sacred mountain.... This enchanting village is small, quiet, has little cars activity; nice accommodations and charming restaurants and cafes; it is the perfect place to connect with your own soul and with what is eternal.

testimonies of satisfied customers:

He is treated by [the locals] as a friend and intimate traveler in places that would be otherwise unknown and unavailable to all but a handful of visitors.

locals welcome the guide who brings rich tourists... haalo globalization! bye-bye local tradisions!

but THIS tourist-guide offers - alongside a oracle and instant mastery of the "double" - afree-lance don-juan service!

Private Work
Private work with Victor Sanchez is an exceptional opportunity for those with enough personal resources, such as personal energy, financial independence and time availability, required to get involved in an intensive and very personal work on a one on one setting. It may be done by phone, email, or in person in Mexico or anywhere in the world.

he's just like the mexican  who offered casta (in "tales of infinity"?) to find don juan for him! or is he that scoundrel indeed?

"dirty sanchez"

...
this blast was tough, Mr x, or Mr g, or Mr y! it hunts me to this day!
no, i avoid the link to urban dictionary...
i like to think i'm tough... i am... but not THAT kind of tough! i'm not, and i'll never be! cursed is the dirt!
___________________________