general supernatural exploration - part 1

[ju4o]

G did amazingly well (post #40) if you look at the sum of the digits in each of his guessed numbers.

*edit* P.S. sorry I meant post #35

[Mr X]

hello,

z, your death scaffold remembered me of the book i have been listening too this week, slaughterhouse five. somehow it is slightly easier to read your rambles after listenreading most of that book.

did you expect me to remember myself guiding someone for it would approve something YOU rmember, x?

no.

j, did you opt out and get the numbers from tosk, did i accidentally send the numbers to everyone, or can you read private messages ? for curiosity.
you are correct, i did not notice that. suprisingly close. and after reading the page pictured, broken rng seems less of an concern.

g, i am interested in the 4-5 story. 4 or 5 are not one of the numerals. still interested in the story.
more than the numbers, i am quiet impressed at parts of the straws tupe. i think that was better syncing than guessing 2. i dont know what that means.
when i am at forum4, and we have talked of the holding pattern, the thoughts of the origins of that are there, when i am here. especially last time i posted, as i had had so much wine by the end of that night i had to post with one eye closed. i was thinking about it lots, the fact that version 1* started from desperation.

and other thing i should mention, was and offline sync. i have yet to make my tinfoil suit to protect from connection, so this is and other story that i will not say. to make it simple in and basic fashion - imagine if and stranger walks up to you, they are looking for someone, you know the name even though the event is random. they mention some numbers as part of their looking. those numbers are in the forum4 random numbers. the experience is disconcerting due to the extreme unusualness. just and sync. worth mention only for high weirdness.

x.

*

[ju4o]

Pms in smf are visible to admins.  The 's' in 'smf' stands for 'simple'.

G's guess was pretty remarkable not only as regards the sum of the digits in each number but in overall shape.

[Mr G]

X, this morning as I was getting ready to go out, I put a can of deodorant on a book I left on a shelf. I forgot what it was doing there - I was rummaging through some old books to find some I wanted to give to a friend of my mother's. I decided not to give her that one, I didn't want to depress her.

The next minute I read your post while putting on my shoes. The book was Armageddon in Retrospect, by Kurt Vonnegut. It is at least partially about Slaughterhouse Five.

The 4-5 thing is stupid. Apparently, in this country, the police have a form you must complete if you were assaulted. On this form there is a picture where different body parts are given numerical codes, so you may indicate where you were injured. The part labeled 4-5 is the... is the unmentionables. So now 4-5 has become a euphemism for a 4-5. Some of my colleagues were joking about it hysterically the other day; I failed to see the humour. I thought it was worth a guess.

[Mr X]

hello,

j, i dont mind, that seem fitting. the numbers were electronically passed from one person to another, and someone plucked the numbers from the system.

what do you mean by overall shape ?

g, you can opt out at any time. obviously there are limits on the amount of possible guesses. this is just and casual informal guessing game. if you want to know the numbers just say so.

say we were trying to invent gps, in our garage, and the very first time we turned on the system, it didnt locate the exact position, but it was pretty dam close.

to examine how the "pretty dam close" happened, to dissect and explore the details, seems like something that might have value.

i am okay with the idea that everything is stupid, and everyone is stupid. there are so many things that are hard to verbalise, and even if worded perfectly, the is no guarantee the hearer speaks the same language. it really is difficult to talk about some of these things, without bringing up minutiae and things that dont individually matter, but in and system they add up.

x
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEAn9dNavT4

[ju4o]

If G had guessed all four numbers correctly, none of us would have attributed it to supernatural causes, it would have looked too much like collusion.

So the "pretty dam close" aspect is interesting, it is a kind of balance between too close and too far.

[Mr G]

Mr J, I must point out that Mr X revealed that there was a repeating number in the sequence. Perhaps that is the shape you are referring to.

X, you may reveal the numbers if you wish. You're welcome to another round, perhaps others will also respond this time. You might put a twist on it also, if you want to. Perhaps you could decide not to use random numbers, and in stead pick the numbers yourself. Perhaps there is another dynamic involved, or perhaps not. It's just an experiment. To quote Clarke from a prior post:

"2.   The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible."

I know this is minutiae and we've kind of moved past the whole sync thing, but I was quite struck by the whole Kurt Vonnegut connection. I already noticed it before you mentioned SH5. This week I've learned twice (independent events) that there is a city in Texas called Kilgore, and heard a mention of "Breakfast of Champions" in a different context. KV has been my favourite author at various times, so I notice those things. Anyway, to celebrate a minor Kilgore related synchronicity, I would like to paste my favourite Trout tale here. I'm copying it from a reddit page, so I don't know how accurate it is (sorry J4). It's called "Dog's Breakfast", by Kilgore Trout and appears in Timequake, by KV if I remember correctly. It also has interesting correlations with what we're talking about, so I invite you to read it if you will.

" It was about a mad scientist named Fleon Sunoco, who was doing research at the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland. Dr. Sunoco believed really smart people had little radio receivers in their heads, and were getting their bright ideas from somewhere else.
"The smarties had to be getting outside help" Trout said to me at Xanadu. While impersonating the mad Sunoco, Trout himself seemed convinced that there was a great big computer somewhere, which, by means of radio, had told Pythagoras about right triangles, and Newton about gravity, and Darwin about evolution, and Pasteur about germs, and Einstein about relativity, and on and on.

"That computer, wherever it is, whatever it is, while pretending to help us, may actually be trying to kill us dummies with too much to think about," said Kilgore Trout.
Dr. Fleon Sunoco at the NIH, who is independently rich, hires grave robbers to bring him the brains of deceased members of Mensa, a nationwide club for persons with high Intelligence Quotients, or IQs, as determined by standardized tests of verbal and nonverbal skills, tests which pit the testees against the Joe and Jane Sixpacks, against the Lumpenproletariat.
His ghouls also bring him brains of people who died in really stupid accidents, crossing busy streets against the light, starting charcoal fires at cookouts with gasoline, and so on, for comparison. So as not to arouse suspicion, they deliver the fresh brains one at a time in buckets stolen from a nearby Kentucky Fried Chicken franchise. Needless to say, Sunoco's supervisors have no idea what he's really doing when he works late night after night. They do notice how much he likes fried chicken, apparently, ordering it by the bucket, and that he never offers anybody else some. They also wonder how he stays so skinny. During regular working hours, he does what he is paid to do, which is develop a birth control pill that takes all the pleasure out of sex, so teenagers won't copulate.

At night, though, with nobody around, he slices up high-IQ brains, looking for little radios. He doesn't think Mensa members had them inserted surgically. He thinks they were born with them, so the receivers have to be made of meat. Sunoco has written in his secret journal: "There is no way an unassisted human brain, which is nothing more than a dog's breakfast, three and a half pounds of blood-soaked sponge, could have written 'Stardust,' let alone Beethoven's Ninth Symphony."

One night he finds an unexplained little snot-colored bump, no larger than a mustard seed, in the inner ear of a Mensa member, who as a junior high schooler had won spelling bee after spelling bee. Eureka!
He reexamines the inner ear of a moron who was killed when, she was grabbing door handles of fast-moving vehicles while wearing Rollerblades. Neither of her inner ears has a snot-colored bump. Eureka!

Sunoco examines fifty more brains, half from people so stupid you couldn't believe it, half from people so smart you couldn't believe it. Only the inner ears of the rocket scientists, so to speak, have bumps. The bumps have to have been the reason the smarties were so good at taking IQ tests. An extra piece of tissue that little, and as nothing but tissue, couldn't possibly have been much more help than a pimple. It has to be a radio! And radios like that have to be feeding correct answers to questions, no matter how recondite, to Mensas and Phi Beta Kappas, and to quiz show contestants.

This is a Nobel Prize-type discovery! So, even before he has published, Fleon Sunoco goes out and buys himself a suit of tails for Stockholm.
"Fleon Sunoco jumped to his death into the National Institutes of Health parking lot. He was wearing his new suit of tails, which would never get to Stockholm.
"He realized that his discovery proved that he didn't deserve credit for making it. He was hoist by his own petard! Anybody who did anything as wonderful as what he had done couldn't possibly have done it with just a human brain, with nothing but the dog's breakfast in his braincase. He could have done it only with outside help."

Edit: I just learned that Kilgore, Texas is the "home to the Texas Shakespeare Festival" (wikipedia), and of course "hoist with his own petard" is line from Hamlet. Sorry, I'll stop now.

[ju4o]

"Mr X revealed that there was a repeating number in the sequence", yes I know but you got right the fact that it's the middle pair which repeats.

I do have a question which is, how did you know the numbers would be in ascending order?

[Mr X]

hello,

If G had guessed all four numbers correctly, none of us would have attributed it to supernatural causes, it would have looked too much like collusion.

i agree. i would of know he was correct but there is no way i could of convince anyone else of that. if i was not involved and observing i would of become suspicious after guess of 37. encrypted file sent to all guessers only removes the ability of the number maker to modify the numbers later to fit an narrative. which means nothing if the number maker whispers the numbers to create an narrative. collusion, not sure how we can avoid that as an possible.

if an script generated the numbers and self encrypted, then no one knows the numbers. we are guessing numbers that exist at all. no telepathy or person to person connection. we could guess lottery numbers, numbers that are yet to exist. but that is predicting the future. for any close knit connection experiment someone has to know the numbers. that allows for the possibility of collusion as and explantation.

that leaves us with trust and honesty, which is unperfect. but all we have. is there and system that removes collusions and and possible ?

g,
2
30
30
31

37
(https://www.random.org/)
(last time i went to that site was to generate the numbers, first time back to confirm it was the site, i checked it was working, 45)
( i tried to look for some way to spoiler tag the numbers so you could choose to look, couldnt figure it out)

if someone picked the numbers, they could pick 1, 4 times. or pick the round one numbers.  or do something predictable like make each number different, spread out. it is interesting. we both know for certain there is no collusion here. the other 4 dont know that for absolute certain like we do. while this thread is not and survey, i have wondered about that. if 5 belief in god and 1 doesnt. someone is wrong, someone is right. or everyone is wrong, and everyone is right. weirdness.

trout is in other books than sh5 ? i like that. after sh5 - farenheit 451 is next. im trying to get through lots of the classics, then maybe something like some terry pratchett possibly. though it looks like i will be taking and detour through kurt v. when googling for lists of classics i found and thread on reddit book section and from there made and list of books to listen to when i am doing other activities. breakfast of champions came up in the lists.

so much minutiae, i like it. i am not sure we are past syncs/links. maybe. i am thinking of syncs being like the interesting point on and graph. two lines intersect, that is the point. from the perspective of the point, it happened noticeably, but it has no meaning aside from what one can personally assign if so inclined, it just happened. in the graph however, the data or information is in both the lines and the point of intersection. the origin and destination of the lines are the interesting bit, if there is any meaning or purpose, it would be in the lines.

x.

ps.
as and question, after watching movies like imitation game, chappie, ex machina, is there and turing style test for spiritual beings. such as, for all the people that claim to speak to ghosts and aliens and spirit beings, that claim to have control of their energy, is there and test to determine if they are being truthful ?

[tally-ho!]

hmm
feel very stupid

what are you talking about?
what do you want us to guess?
4 numbers you picked up by a random generator?

and this would prove what?
like 17,27,72,1?
OR HOW MANY DIGITS COULD THEY HAVE?

or like - what is it all about?
slouthterhouse 5 i used to like - the hands closing to say "you're stupid!" - but what about the death scaffold?

ps.
as and question, after watching movies like imitation game, chappie, ex machina, is there and turing style test for spiritual beings. such as, for all the people that claim to speak to ghosts and aliens and spirit beings, that claim to have control of their energy, is there and test to determine if they are being truthful ?

well - in one case, a person who suggested we make a siance, and i chose a person to call, insisted that i ask the spirit something only he and i could know - i asked him how old he was when we met, and he answered correctly - 39.

but the real motive of the 2 clowns who initiated this seance was - the hope to tempt one of us girls - they wanted to @&*%# no matter what. and the beauty between us was 17.
so can you say they where truthful?

 x-san - since i didn't ping you after all (define ping?) now i am "rambling?"

let me ramble some more:

at the short period when God Himself guided me, the first thing he taught me was: that he would lie to me any time he finds it necessary. i guess it's what casta calls "controlled folly." same with Charlie. i gave some example how he lied to me. but i can  trust him for my life. as i do.
g - tamahtufah, and some other terms, yes, i have to complete. but next time.

no - found some old explanation:
it's an end note from here:
http://spiritualitydiscussiongroup.yuku.com/reply/2485/the-fire-snake#reply-2485
better read it there, for the colors cod that for some reason (not just the lack of time) i avoide copying here.

*tamahtufa the arrangement of energy centers in the energy body of a creature at the beginning of his evolution towards taking-of to the sun. in the end of his evolution (which takes many many lifetimes) this arrangement changes to be what is called " markaw ". The word has to do with Hebrew "mercavah " chariot.) the tamahtuphah is related to the markaw as a bud to a flower. For illustration: one who's tamahtufa got opened as a markaw would understand right-away any language addressed at him, and will be able to answer too. A markaw might get closed back to the tamahtufah phase as a result of trauma; an extreme tamahtufah closing is amnesia

[Mr G]

Hope I don't disappoint, but I didn't guess the order, just the numbers. I put them in that order because that's how they announce lottery numbers.

Z's numbers looks like 14 divided by 11 backwards... almost. 1.272727

Now, just to be funny, here are some bible verses numbered 14:11. I typed 14/11 into google and noticed that's what came out.

"'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.'"
(Romans 14:11)

"Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves."
(John 14:11)

And for a darker turn:

"And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name."
(Revelation 14:11)

***

is there and test to determine if they are being truthful ?

I guess something like a polygraph would work, but that will only tell you if they believe themselves. I'm afraid you'll have to find a way to measure the supernatural directly. But maybe god don't want you to measure it. Remember the god from Futurama?

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
(Futurama 4:08)

[ju4o]

Well then it is the random number generator that is psychic as it generated the numbers in ascending order thus conforming to your convention.

[Mr X]

hello,

z, rambling is fine, i like to ramble. google ping and tell me what you think it means.

the rng was obviously not psychic nor cofirming to g convention. the numbers were generated for everyone. including you mr j. by everyone i mean the 5 possible participants. as you said, we now know why g arranged the numbers in that format, but how and why the numbers were guessed is still and mystery. why 37. why 2. that mystery is for you to explain mr g, not the generator.

g, are there any verses for the first set of numbers, for curiosity.

i dont know the facts but polygraph seems to have and bad reputation, not legit. if it did work yes, only show if they belief it, like the ways to beat and polygraph.
im not thinking about testing if people belief what they think, more - if someone claims they can channel and spirit, what would you ask the "spirit" to determine if it real.

in and lesser note, with syncs, say with and stranger, your cant grab the stranger and interrogate them until your mind is satisfied with all possible information relating to the sync moment. at least here we can examine and look at the weirdness and bit more closely.

there is the system where everyone picks and number, and sends it into the self encrypted file with no chance of electronic plucking. 6 minds, numbers revealed as guessed, no sequence.

if you could ask and question to the god of g or z, what would it be ?

ps i havent picked round 2 numbers yet, i will by the end of the month, between 1 and 30. above my computer monitor there is and calender, it there for only decorative reasons, and has been set to june 2015 for at least and few weeks due to the picture of the month looking nice. i rarely ever even notice it is there.

any "god doesnt want you to" business does not sit well. part jeebies. say there were 5 for god, 1 against. and i was the 1 against. i would review my thoughts on that, but i wouldnt want to switch on that view unless i actually felt or experienced it. the switching seems trivial, the belifing not trivial.

good luck trying to pluck numbers from my mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMLqufujIlw

x.

[ju4o]

"the rng was obviously not psychic nor coforming to g convention. the numbers were generated for everyone. including you mr j. by everyone i mean the 5 possible participants."

That is rather missing the point because part of the meaning of the rng being psychic is that it knew the only person who would actually make any guesses was G so it generated the numbers specially for him.

If you find this rather spooky well just remember that you asked for it.

I mean, if you start a thread called "general supernatural exploration" and ask in your first post "how do we explore the supernatural ?" and then in order to get more participants in the thread you start a psychic guessing game, it suggests that you are pretty persistently interested in exploring the supernatural.

And it's not like we got lots of people joining in and one of them was close.

We got exactly one person joining in, and that person was pdc (pretty dam close) ... to the extent that if it was any closer we would seriously suspect collusion.

Would you agree that things have worked out rather well?

Furthermore, the very first guess of all was completely accurate.  That is rather fantastic when you actually think about it.

[ju4o]

By the way I have another question:

Right after posting the foregoing I decided I'd better read through the relevant part of the thread again to check I hadn't got anything wrong, and I've just noticed (in post #53)

(last time i went to that site was to generate the numbers, first time back to confirm it was the site, i checked it was working, 45)

I didn't take that on board the first time around because I wasn't sure what you meant, and when that happens with your writing I usually just kind of let it go.

But what did you mean actually?  Looking at it again now, it seems to be saying that you originally visited the website random.org in order to generate the original 5 numbers, and then when you were writing post #53 you visited the site a second time in order to check the name of the website, and while you were there you gave it another go just to see if it was still working, and it generated the number 45.  But that would be borderline incredible, given the circumstances.