Moonlight

[ju4o]

That calls forth a memory, travelling in pueblo country.  Each pueblo can be very different from the previous and the next.  Some are quite like normal life, with school buildings and community art centres, and look fairly twentieth century in some ways.  Others are in another world.  This one, near the Rio Grande, where the group arrived and parked in the shade of a tree, had a large expanse of beaten earth with the tree in the middle, and at two edges of the expanse were rows of adobe houses looking tiny in the distance.  Perhaps there were a few benches along the front of the houses, but nobody in sight, it was the middle of the heat of the day, in the middle of August.

The rule for the group was, just show up.  When visiting a pueblo it is no use marching up and saying Howdy like an American.  You have to show up, respond if anything happens or just wait.

After a while an elderly gentleman emerged from somewhere, perhaps he had been sitting on one of the benches and we had not seen him.  Slowly and peacefully he started walking towards the group.  White shirt, brown trousers, flip flops, hat.

It seemed to get hotter.  Mirages started swirling up from the beaten earth where there were eddies of air.  We thought, perhaps we should go and greet him half way, and so spare him from walking further across the baking hot expanse.  But no, better stick to the rules, just wait.

Step by step he took.  Baking.  By the time he got about three quarters of the way across the expanse, we realized he was not walking towards us, he was walking directly towards the tree.

Still he was about fifty metres away.  By then we could see his expression.  Noble.

When he reached the edge of the shade we all breathed a sigh of relief.  Now he was walking in the shade, the last few steps to the tree, with its beautifully spreading branches, under which the group's car was parked and which we were all stading in the shade of.

He reached the trunk of the tree.  He lightly touched it.  Then slowly and peacefully he started walking back the way he had come.  It began to be not quite so hot, the place was very fertile, near the big river, maybe there was even a hint of cooling breezes somewhere in the air.

We watched his slowly receding form.  At length he arrived back at the row of adobe houses in the distance.  The group got back into its car, and drove off.

[Mr X]

hello j,

nice story, at first i thought it was a quote or a sanchez story. why was the group there, why was the rule a thing or how did you know about the rule ? who was the group ?

next step for tree finders is to get a torch, a small one, so you can cover the beam with your thumb or palm. as next you have to start finding the tree at night. as you walk to the tree, pay attention to everything with your ears.

Mulling the question, continually, 24 hours a day, dreaming and awake, is helping the development of the mold of human cognition.

the mulling over things 24 hrs a day has been happening. i have noticed my brain, while asleep, is trying really hard to process information not just about psi type things, but forum4. in dreams my brain visits the forum, logs in sometimes, sometimes it invents characters for the members here and i talk with them for hours. multiple time after waking in the morning i am disappointed after spending hours figuring things out, and remembering nothing.

before the forum games dreams were not really a thing. they happened sometimes, made no effort to remember them and i was fine with that.
one sunday in the general thread i posted a tupe for sense8, that night had amazing nightmares. since then i continued to have nightmares and intense dreams, some which i attributed to a lack of nictotine for about a month. but as it started before the nicotine diet started, it wasnt that.

it settled into having intense dreams everyday to the point of being predictable and even looking forward to it when i go to bed. even a basic lucid dream a few weeks ago where i thought "i gotta tell the forum about this".

im not saying we are going to magically become telepathic through dreams, or that dreaming together is real, or that lucid dreams are anything more than some self awareness, but dreams in the psi frame are interesting.

will post the nicodream thing today, dont hold onto your hat as it not very exciting.

mr x.

[Mr X]

some things i have been thinking of, just posting before i forget them,

firstly, in regards to training psi and how to make it awesome, my first thought about that was - find the right people. try testing telepathy on your own, doesnt work well.

a telepathy game with a friend who can finish your sandwiches sentences is more likely to have results than with a total stranger. but more than being "on the same page" or having similar interests so you have similar thought patterns, the right people seem to just click regardless of difference, the syncs and weird stuff just seems to happen with those people. im not sure how that could apply to training but i do think it is something that would/does have an effect on psi experiences. the small group at f4 seems pretty good to me.

im thinking communication is at least a way to extract the weirdness from the group. for example i recently started communicating again with a friend, and some really weird psyncs started becoming apparent, such as they had already happened, but by while talking about stuff i noticed that they had occurred.

next, this whole tree finding business, i dont want to waste your time. it is not a bad exercise but its very specifically about one part of ghost finding training, on its own or in itself the exercise might help you become more mindful. as an idea - using the moon as part of that exercise would be nice, but i havent tried that so had to go with the torch method. find the tree and the doorway at night on the full moon, find both every night until there is no moon, no torches allowed. sounds cool but a bit over dramatic and over shamanic.

im not giving up my torch due to snakes and spiders, moon training sounds good but yeah i am keeping a torch with me. but that is sort of the point, the retreat, when the ghost finds you. (and drains your torch of power)

so i was thinking, even if mr j learns to identify all sounds, to walk silently in the dark, how to place scent markers or even plays around with the untested ideas of echolocation and heart rate control, it will not lead to psi anomalies. just be useful skills under the conditions of knowing the location of a anomaly and physically going there.

so i was thinking, venice, poveglia. im not sure i can claim syncs on this, but mr j travelling to poveglia has looped through my mind a few times. such as the wiki page mentioning ghost adventures tv show, i thought that is not a good reference to make in serious psi discussion (even though i watch that show), fast forward to x watching the current episode of that show, the castaneda hotel, still thinking that is not a good enough sync or reference, then the word "pueblo" appeared on the screen.

so i am just saying, all of that.

x.

ps.
g, have started on the audiobook, the martian is great, i needed a book to listen to while doing some spring gardening, excited to hear the rest of the story.

[Mr G]

Great to hear that, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. I'm afraid I have to disqualify myself from the nicotine dreams experiment, for the time being at least. If I had known about this about five years ago I would have been eager to try it, but I've been having trouble sleeping for a while now and it's really disruptive. Also, I'm an ex-smoker, so I'm a bit worried about that. I am still very interested in the results you or any other participants get, so please do go ahead with the experiment.

Excuse the infrequent posts, I seem to be a bit preoccupied with random happenings but all is well.

Meanwhile... Rick and Morty FTW! Here follows first scene of season 2, so - not sure if spoiler alert necessary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbVvF5wWqf0

Then, next: Moonlight Sonata

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tr0otuiQuU

Enjoy your time on Mars!

[Mr X]

hello g,

disqualifying for ex smoker reasons is good, not worth the risk for a basic experiment. and i get not wanting sleep disruption, a very annoying thing to experience.

i can handle the possible nightmares but it is the sleep disruption that i am least looking forward to. keeping a sleep journal for a month will also be annoying. i will probably start next week depending on what my plans for next week are.

when recently trying to quit smoking, in anticipation of not being able to sleep, i tried kava extract. cant say if it works or is a placebo, but it seemed to help with sleep.

i have watched 2 episodes of rick and morty so far, i dont understand what is going on. but i seem to like it. why does rick burp all the time.

asides from ghosts and groups, does anyone have any other ideas for how to train or pursue the paranormal or psi ? even basics like meditation or simple practices.

mr x.
ps.
what, we are tubing in this thread.
i have been watching old movies lately, good stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUorM4nTX7k
ppss.
new maiden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=4&v=-F7A24f6gNc

[ju4o]

"why was the rule a thing?"

That is an interesting question, almost Hegelian in its reach.

Which is a neat coincidence, because it is with Hegel that this story begins.

The federal government used to audit the welfare programs of each state, and apply a financial penalty when the audit threw up discrepancies beyond a fixed allowable percentage.  The state of New Mexico was audited, the discrepancy was found to be extreme, and the state was threatened with a fine of gigantic proportions.

The attorney asked by the state to prepare a defence decided to deploy what he called the Hegelian option.

Basically, although he did not describe it in exactly this way, he was preparing to argue that while plains indians are cheerful ragamuffins and can be treated as such, and beaten into line when necessary, pueblo indians on the other hand are delicate flowers who would be snuffed out if a bureaucratic agency hammered too hard on their spiritually based inability to be precise with facts and figures.

Therefore, since the pueblo indians are almost all in New Mexico (with some in Arizona), the state of New Mexico should be allowed a much higher discrepancy in the benefit program audit than other states were allowed.

Certain ethnographical data was to be collected in support of this argument, the group and the rule (which was indeed a thing) were part of this collection effort.

[Mr X]

hello ju4o,

a few questions,

could you please explain the hegel / hegelian part, i have looked him up online but just asking what you think of when you say the hegelian option or your thoughts on hegel in general.

how did the rule come about as instructions for the data collectors ?

where you there at the tree and saw the man touch the tree with your own eyes, or is that a story from somewhere else ? if you were there, how did you come to be there, or i am asking for more context.

funnily enough, this month i will be going on a journey with miss - for a few days, hundreds of miles. there i will find a tree that has significance. i want to know more about your story before then. i will take a photo of the tree when i find it. this adventure is the culmination of state audits and massive (tax) fines being finally over.

g, that audiobook was awesome, exciting interesting and i ended up just sitting at my computer listening to it, like people must of done with radio shows in the old days. made me want to know more science stuff just for survival.

x.

[tally-ho!]

https://pervegalit.wordpress.com/2012/06/09/how-to-fake-your-way-through-hegel/ (https://pervegalit.wordpress.com/2012/06/09/how-to-fake-your-way-through-hegel/)

The idea that one can never read Hegel — only re-read Hegel — is in itself wonderfully Hegelian

.
true and tried...
[=i also googled Hegel until steam came out of my ears.]

[ju4o]

"I also googled Hegel until steam came out of my ears"

Well please be careful.  According to J.S.Mill,

"I found by actual experience of Hegel that conversancy with him tends to deprave one's intellect"

Personally I am not going to even try to pursue the Hegelian aspects of this story, I only mentioned Hegel because that is what the attorney said.  By the way it is a true story and not a quote, it is first hand.

[tally-ho!]

Well please be careful. According to J.S.Mill,

"I found by actual experience of Hegel that conversancy with him tends to deprave one's intellect"

  true and tried, i can say after some more googling, as the Jew who saw in a Sidur [=prayer book] in the synagogue  a hand-written note: 'thick-bearded - dumb; thin bearded - wise." he got enraged: what? I am I stupid??" and began plucking hairs from his beard.
than he added another note in the Sidur:
"tried and true."

(one of my late dad's favorite anecdotes.)


luckily i kept the other advise of the author of "only re-read Hegel" namely:

Read only tertiary literature.
... Read literature that refers to literature about Hegel.

!
so - J.S.Mill, adequately tertiarilay:

For some time after I had finished the book all such words as reflexion, development, evolution, &c., gave me a sort of sickening feeling which I have not yet entirely got rid of.

http://nforum.ncatlab.org/discussion/4117/the-wiki-history-of-the-universe/ (http://nforum.ncatlab.org/discussion/4117/the-wiki-history-of-the-universe/)
that's tough!
curiouser and curouser!
 calls for wildest conspiraitons!

a post hypnotic reaction?
was J.s. Mill exposed to something like "hidden adds" or a card game running behind the curtains?
how come all those intelligent guys feel so intensely obliged to pretend to be conversant with Hegel?

does it have to do with Christianity?
is one who socialize with Hegel&company sent screaming and kicking directly to heaven??
 
 

Ju4o:I only mentioned Hegel because that is what the attorney said.

The attorney asked by the state to prepare a defence decided to deploy what he called the Hegelian option.

Basically, although he did not describe it in exactly this way,

so - in what way DiD he describe it?

P.S.: "obtaining preview?" that's a penalty for fetching first hand British Jargon?

[Mr X]

By the way it is a true story and not a quote, it is first hand.

cool, i was just checking.

how did you come to be part of the data collectors, i am curious, it seems like some anthropology or social science . aside from the tree event, what else did you see or experience during those investigations that could be relevant.

is there any psi training you could recommend that i could attempt while trying to find a tree hundreds of miles away ?

this recent sunday i had a big burst of weirdness. the tree finding business was involved. i will post that story upstairs when i have time.
if anyone had anything weird happen over this past weekend i would like to hear it.

later on sunday, through a friend i recently connected with, i learned of a private residential address that is haunted. access granted.

mr x.

[Mr X]

just putting this out there as an possible point of discussion,

feelings,

yep, good old fashioned feelings. like thoughts, but something else.

where do they fit in in the pursuit of the paranormal. if some one were training psychic or psi things, feelings are going to come into it.

i am not much of a feelings person, i like to keep that stuff in check, generally not listen to feelings. so i am quite interested in this topic.

mr x.

[tally-ho!]

dj called it "a path with heart", X. no other way to tap into it but follow your heart. your feelings.
 telepaths are called "empaths", for a reason.
the crumbles that makes Hansel and Gretel path  to come back home -
they are crumbles of feelings.
of soul?
messy old emotions, yes.


~

~

[tally-ho!]

[ju4o]

If psi works because of quantum entanglement, and if entanglement can be harnessed to remotely create more entanglement ... a sort of cascading entanglement ...

then there is the possibility of a chain reaction that could exponentially amplify the weak and not very useful fizzing of natural psi into the intimations of incandescent power sung in myth which join space with time and make the world go round

(see opening post of this thread).

Don Juan had explained that the body and the energy body were two conglomerates of energy fields compressed together by some strange agglutinizing force. He had emphasized no end that the force that binds that group of energy fields together was, according to the sorcerers of ancient Mexico, the most mysterious force in the universe. His personal estimation was that it was the pure essence of the entire cosmos, the sum total of everything there is.